Tuesday and Wednesday, June 5 and 6 were marathon meeting days for the members of the Cook County Community Center Steering Committee and the various governmental entities they represent, with a joint work session of the county commissioners, Grand Marais City Council and ISD 166 school board in the morning of June 5, a community input session on the evening of June 5, and a steering committee meeting early in the morning on June 6. All focused on what a community center attached to the ISD 166 school building would look like.
Questions from ISD 166
It was two days of questions, starting at the work session in the county commissioner’s room at the courthouse on Tuesday. In addition to the members of the community center steering committee, 12 citizens were on hand to listen. School Board Member Deb White started the questioning by noting that attaching the community center to the school had been ruled out early in the planning process. She said she felt the school was being “pushed into this” and asked why it is now being considered.
County Attorney Tim Scannell said attaching the facility to the school was the most popular choice originally, “except for political issues like this that precluded this from moving forward.”
Community Center Director Diane Booth and others agreed. Booth said, “I think the first time around a lot of us wanted it connected because that is where the heart of our programming is. We didn’t know if we could connect to the school at that time and we talked about having to move the tennis courts. Because of the political ramifications of moving the tennis courts, we didn’t think it would work out.”
However, since then, Booth said, the district office has been emptied out and there is discussion of finding new uses for other spaces, such as the teachers’ lounge.
School Board Member Jeanne Anderson, a steering committee member, said, “After months of discussion, it was decided that the best location was next to the school. After months of listening it was decided that using part of existing facilities was the best option.”
Scannell nodded, “This is clearly the best use of space.”
White had questions about the impact of renovation. Wade Cole of ORB Management, the county’s consulting firm, agreed that needed to be carefully worked out, but said his company oversaw the renovation of a grocery store that is open 24/7. “That was difficult,” he said. “But we worked it out.”
Cole said a lot of the plans are up in the air at this time. He pointed to the draft concept plan and noted that not much had been clearly defined, other than the aquatics area and the gym. He said rest of the concept would be completed after the engineering/ architectural design team completes its work and it is determined how to best meet the community’s needs.
One question Cole had was whether the school was willing to make the locker rooms next to the current community ed gymnasium part of the community center, to be “shared space.”
School Board Member Leonard Sobanja questioned how that would work for visiting sports teams and Commissioner/Steering Committee Member Sue Hakes said that would need to be worked out. Duluth YMCA CEO Chris Francis said shared spaces “happen all the time.”
A skeptical Sobanja said, “Good luck with that!”
Steering Committee Chair Paul Sporn said WTIP radio had aired three interviews with other school districts that had attached community centers to their campuses— Redwood Area Community Center, Waconia Safari Community Center and Bluff Creek Elementary & Chanhassen Recreation Center. Sporn encouraged anyone interested to listen to the interviews at www.wtip.org. (Click news, then community center information.)
White questioned the size of those communities. “It’s not apples to apples,” she said.
Booth said, “If you look at our numbers, we spend a half a million dollars as a community on these things. If we can do the same thing for less money and have better facilities, that is a good goal.”
Debate continued regarding whether or not the locker rooms adjacent to the community gym should be left under school ownership or become part of the community center. The question raised another question—if that area became part of the community center, would that hall be closed down? Board Member Sobanja, a former CCHS principal, expressed concern about how that would affect the flow of student traffic. There was considerable discussion, but the school board could not make a decision since the question had not been on the published agenda, so the matter was tabled.
However, Commissioner Jan Hall said a decision had to be made relatively soon. “We don’t want the architect to come up and do all kinds of design planning and then change it.”
Trading space for expanded industrial arts?
ISD 166 Superintendent Beth Schwarz introduced an entirely new proposal for the project. Schwarz noted that the school would “give up” valuable real estate if the community center is attached to the west end of the building. She wondered if, in return, the county could assist financially—with 1 percent recreation and infrastructure tax funds or other funds—to complete an expansion of the industrial arts area. Schwarz provided a line drawing with a conceptual industrial arts expansion. The drawing shows an addition “jutting out” from the current woodworking area. Schwarz said there had been limited discussion on this, as the idea was just hatched that morning, but she said this could address the deficiencies that have been identified in the industrial arts area.
School Board Member Leonard Sobanja, a former industrial arts teacher, said he didn’t think the proposed expansion space was adequate. Sobanja said the school district needs to include community members who are interested in a continued industrial arts program at the school in this planning.
Steering Committee Chair Paul Sporn said the space could be designed to have a separate entrance and could be used by Cook County Higher Education or Community Education programs. County Commissioner Fritz Sobanja said he has long advocated for an expanded/improved industrial arts program.
School Board Member White asked, “If it is constructed, who pays for it? The county?”
Superintendent Schwarz said that is part of the negotiation for the trade of building space. Commissioner Hakes commended Schwarz and Chair Sporn, who had developed the idea, for bringing the idea forward.
As the morning meeting wrapped up, participants were asked to sum up how they felt about the latest proposal. Most of the comments were optimistic about completing the community center project. Commissioner Bruce Martinson said, “I was opposed. The numbers did not look like this would work. The decreased size and bringing the Y on board have really helped make this more realistic.”
City involved or not?
Although Grand Marais Mayor Larry Carlson, city councilors Tim Kennedy and Bill Lenz and Grand Marais City Administrator Mike Roth were on hand for the early afternoon meeting, they said very little. At one point, Mayor Carlson said although the city council passed a motion to support the concept of a community center on May 9, the motion had not been unanimous, and he added, “Nothing has changed. You have no guarantees of participation from the city.”
Commissioner Hakes, the former mayor of Grand Marais, said the city had identified replacement of the current pool as one of its top priorities. “We’re hopeful that the city will want to participate when it is able,” she said.
City involvement was one of the first questions at the public input meeting at the Mianowski Conference Room that evening. Rae Piepho asked if the project could move forward without city support. Commissioner Sobanja said yes. He said if the county builds a pool, it is logical that the city would close its pool. “The money that goes to that pool won’t go there anymore,” he said.
Molly Hoffman pointed out that the language of the city’s motion does not bind them to a specific level of support. Chair Sporn replied that the motion was an act of good faith on the part of the city.
Memberships and money
Potential YMCA membership numbers were discussed and Walter McCarthy asked how many members would be needed to break even. YMCA CEO Francis said he didn’t calculate for “break-even.”
Chair Sporn said, “We acknowledge this will not break even. Most pools in America do not. We know that we will have to support this.”
Hoffman expressed concern that the estimated membership numbers (129 by the SEER Analytical study, 210 by YMCA Chris Francis’s study) were too high. She said she thought the SEER study used too large an area of possible usage.
Geri Jenson asked about usage of existing facilities. Schwarz said there are about 39 members at Upper Shore Fitness Center. Commissioner Sobanja said the Grand Marais pool had “about 100” members at this time. Sobanja added that at the Grand Marais pool, 1/3 of the users are from the city; 1/3 from outside Cook County and 1/3 are tourists.
Francis said payment for visits for dropin visitors had not been calculated.
McCarthy pointed to the handout which said the estimated membership would be $55/month for families; $40/month for individuals. “If they can’t afford it, they have to swim in the lake, I guess,” he said.
Sporn said no. “If they can’t afford it, they will get assistance,” he said. Commissioner Hakes said, “No one is turned away from a YMCA.”
Carol Seglem said people did not realize the scope of the project when they voted to pass the referendum. She asked if the county would complete a feasibility study, adding, I don’t want to see destruction of things for construction,” she said.
Pete Kavanaugh refuted her statement. “I voted and I knew what I voted for. I believe the majority of people knew what they were voting for. For me, to have the YMCA here in Grand Marais is something to be proud of. I don’t understand this negative bent with people coming forward saying ‘This isn’t going to work.’”
Sporn said, “We’re not here to debate whether or not to have a community center. We are here to talk about this proposal—the size, the facilities.”
Questions became more focused then, on parking concerns, on the size of the walking track, on the cost of delayed construction and more. Some of the answers are listed on the fact sheet on the right.
Another meeting was held at press time on Wednesday, June 6. A report of that discussion will be in next week’s paper.
Cook County Community Center
Quick Facts & Frequently Asked Questions*
Quick Facts
. The county will own the facility—the Duluth Family YMCA is
considering operating the facility through a lease agreement.
. The construction budget for the community center is $8.5 million
plus $1 million for outdoor recreation. The budget has been reduced
by $3.5 million and $2 million respectively. Construction will be paid
from the 1 percent recreation and infrastructure tax.
. The YMCA estimates that a family membership (which includes
all people in the household) will be $55 per month and a single
membership will be at $40 per month. The YMCA works with
insurance companies that subsidize membership fees and there are
scholarships for those who cannot afford to pay.
Frequently Asked Questions
1. What will be included in the new community center? The
current programming plan includes swimming pool, multipurpose
gym (walking track, wellness/fitness), multipurpose rooms (meetings,
teen/youth space, classrooms, dance), a new softball/baseball field,
outdoor ice and warming house, restored soccer field, two upgraded
tennis courts, administration, office, parking.
2. How big will it be? The size of the proposed new community center
has been reduced to approximately 32,000 square feet of which 20,000
will be remodeled space and 12,000 will be new construction.
3. What will be done with the existing community center?
The existing center will undergo some remodeling to better
accommodate curling and skating with a warming area for the
outdoor ice rink. The kitchen will remain intact to service large
gatherings.
4. What will happen to existing community programs such as
Community Ed and the Upper Shore Center for Fitness? The
YMCA has a long history of synergistic coordinating with existing
community programming and nonprofits. The Community Ed fitness
center (Upper Shore) will be relocated into the new facility and be
managed by the YMCA.
5. Will the facility be safe? Safety is the highest priority for the
YMCA. The YMCA is experienced in sign-in procedures, supervision,
cameras, access and monitoring for safety.
6. How will operation and maintenance of the facility be
paid? Revenues from memberships and rentals, donations, and
programming fees will go toward the operations and maintenance of
the community center.
7. Will there be enough revenue generated to sustain the facility?
No, not in the first few years unless memberships and donations are
much greater than currently estimated. The most recent estimates
show that the community center will need to be subsidized with
roughly $200,000 annually. This will be done through fundraising,
growing memberships, and local government subsidies. The
approximate amount of government subsidy for existing recreational
facilities in the county is $200,000 annually.
8. Will the City of Grand Marais be part of the project? The county
has clearly stated the need for the City of Grand Marais to participate
in this project to ensure its success.
9. What will happen to the existing city pool in the Grand Marais
Rec. Park? The existing city pool operates with an annual loss of
$225,000 and eventually it will be closed. The City of Grand Marais has
no plans to maintain the existing pool or build a new one.
10. Will the community center cost ISD 166 any money? It is
anticipated that attaching the community center to ISD 166 will
actually save the school approximately $300,000 in necessary
renovation costs as well as approximately $40,000 per year in
maintenance and heating costs for the west end of the school
building.
11. How will the school and community center share space? There
will be a “shared use agreement” made between the school and the
YMCA to ensure the needs of both are met and understood. The
YMCA has a lot of experience and success with attaching to schools.
12. How many jobs will the community center provide? Four fulltime and 15 part-time. The YMCA will hire the best available people
and locals will be considered for hire.
13. Why do we need the YMCA to manager our facility? The YMCA
brings the much-needed stability and experience of more than 2,600
YMCAs, YMCA-USA and the Duluth Family YMCA. Sharing resources
with the Duluth Family YMCA also reduces operating costs.
*Some of the information is from a handout distributed at the June 5 Community Center Public Input Meeting at the Mianowski Conference Center. Additional information was shared during discussion at the June 5 public meeting.
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